Micro Teacup Goldendoodle Full Grown — 101

Introduction to Micro Teacup Goldendoodles

Micro Teacup Goldendoodles are a delightful example of what happens when you blend the best qualities of two beloved breeds: the Golden Retriever and the Miniature Poodle. This charming hybrid breed is celebrated for its affectionate nature, intelligence, and compact size, making it a perfect fit for a wide range of households. Micro Teacup Goldendoodles inherit the friendly, loyal temperament of golden retrievers, while also benefiting from the intelligence and hypoallergenic qualities of miniature poodles. The result is a loving companion that thrives on human interaction, adapts easily to different lifestyles, and brings joy to families, singles, and seniors alike. With their gentle disposition and eagerness to please, these adorable pups quickly become cherished members of any home.

Breed Overview

The micro goldendoodle is a small-sized member of the goldendoodle breed, created by crossing a golden retriever with a miniature poodle. Known for their hypoallergenic coat, micro goldendoodles are a popular choice for those seeking a dog with minimal shedding and reduced risk of triggering allergies. Their compact size makes them especially suitable for apartment living or homes with limited space. Micro goldendoodles are highly intelligent, generally healthy, and easy to train, making them a great option for both new and experienced dog owners. With an average lifespan of 10-15 years, these dogs offer long-term companionship and require regular grooming to keep their coat healthy and looking its best. Their friendly demeanor and adaptability ensure they fit seamlessly into a variety of living situations.

Creator of the Micro Mini Goldendoodle

The micro mini goldendoodle owes much of its popularity and development to dedicated breeders who sought to create a smaller, more manageable version of the classic goldendoodle. Among these pioneers, Amy Lane stands out for her commitment to ethical breeding practices and her focus on producing healthy, well-adjusted mini goldendoodles. Lane’s approach emphasizes responsible breeding, prioritizing the health, temperament, and overall well-being of each dog. Her standards have set a benchmark for reputable breeders, ensuring that micro mini goldendoodles are not only adorable but also make wonderful, reliable companions. Thanks to breeders like Lane, the micro mini goldendoodle has become a beloved choice for families and individuals seeking a pint-sized, loving pet.

Micro Goldendoodle Generations Explained

Micro goldendoodles come in several generations, each with its own unique blend of traits inherited from the golden retriever and miniature poodle parent breeds. The F1 generation is a direct 50:50 cross between a golden retriever and a miniature poodle, offering a balanced mix of both lineages. The F1B generation results from breeding an F1 goldendoodle back to a miniature poodle, increasing the likelihood of a hypoallergenic coat and smaller size. F2 goldendoodles are produced by crossing two F1 goldendoodles, while multigenerational (multigen) goldendoodles involve several generations of goldendoodle-to-goldendoodle breeding, often resulting in more consistent coat types and temperaments. Reputable breeders place a strong emphasis on health screenings and genetic testing for all parent dogs, ensuring that each micro goldendoodle puppy is as healthy and well-adjusted as possible, regardless of generation.

Key Takeaways

Micro teacup Goldendoodles weigh 8-15 pounds and stand 7-10 inches tall when fully grown at 12-18 months

These tiny dogs are bred from f1b micro goldendoodle or multigen crosses using golden retrievers and toy poodles for maximum size reduction

They feature hypoallergenic coats inherited from their poodle heritage, making them suitable for allergy sufferers

Despite their small size, they maintain the friendly golden retriever temperament and high poodle intelligence

Prices range from $3,500-$7,500 due to specialized breeding requirements and high demand for these rare tiny companions

These adorable pups reach their full adult size between 12-18 months, making them significantly smaller than mini goldendoodles, which typically weigh 25-35 pounds. The compact size results from careful selective breeding practices that focus on producing the tiniest possible offspring while maintaining the desirable traits of both parent breeds.

The breeding process involves using the smallest golden retriever and toy poodle parent dogs, often through f1b micro goldendoodle crosses where one parent is already a goldendoodle. This approach maximizes the poodle genetics while retaining the gentle disposition of the golden retriever lineage. Responsible breeding practices, including thorough health screenings and genetic testing, are essential to ensure healthy puppies and minimize genetic health problems. Prospective owners should always request genetic testing documents from breeders to verify the health of the parent dogs, which increases the likelihood of bringing home a healthy puppy.

What makes these dogs special isn’t just their portable size—they maintain all the classic goldendoodle characteristics in an ultra-compact package perfect for apartment living. Their proportionate body structure and fluffy, teddy bear-like appearance make them irresistible companions for those seeking minimal shedding and maximum charm.

Size and Growth Development

Understanding the growth pattern of micro mini goldendoodles helps set realistic expectations for potential owners. These tiny companions follow a predictable development timeline that differs significantly from larger dog breeds.

Adult Size Specifications

When fully mature, micro goldendoodles reach:

Weight : 8-15 pounds (compared to 10-25 pounds for standard micro goldendoodles)

Height : 7-10 inches at shoulder (versus 10-14 inches for larger micro varieties)

Body length : Proportionate to height, maintaining balanced appearance

The growth timeline follows a steady but slower pace than larger breeds. Most micro goldendoodle puppy reaches 75% of their adult size by 6 months, with complete maturity achieved by 12-18 months. This gradual development supports healthy bone and joint formation crucial for these delicate frames.

Factors Affecting Final Size

Several elements influence how large your micro mini goldendoodle will ultimately become:

Generation Type : f1b micro goldendoodle crosses typically produce smaller offspring than F1 generations, as the increased poodle genetics contribute to size reduction. Multigen crosses offer the most predictable sizing.

Parent Dogs : The size of both golden retriever and poodle parent directly impacts offspring dimensions. reputable breeders carefully select the smallest healthy parent dogs to achieve consistent micro sizing.

Nutrition During Growth : Proper feeding supports healthy development without encouraging oversized growth. A balanced diet during puppyhood ensures optimal but not excessive development.

Gender Differences : Female micro goldendoodles typically weigh 1-2 pounds less than males at maturity, though both remain within the micro teacup range.

Coat and Appearance

The most notable feature of micro goldendoodles lies in their hypoallergenic coat. Thanks to their poodle heritage, these dogs develop wavy to curly coats that produce minimal shedding. Micro goldendoodles hypoallergenic qualities are inherited from their Poodle parentage, making them a popular choice for allergy sufferers. The low shedding coats come in various colors including cream, gold, apricot, red, chocolate, and parti-color patterns.

Their compact size doesn’t compromise their proportions. A fully grown micro teacup goldendoodle maintains a well-balanced frame with proportionate legs, tail, and facial features. The expressive eyes, medium-length muzzle, and characteristic floppy ears create the beloved teddy bear appearance that makes the goldendoodle family so popular.

The hypoallergenic qualities make these dogs particularly suitable for households dealing with allergies micro goldendoodles can accommodate. While no dog is 100% hypoallergenic, the minimal dander production significantly reduces allergic reactions for most sensitive individuals.

Body Structure and Proportions

Despite their tiny stature, micro goldendoodles maintain the sturdy build characteristic of both parent breeds. Their compact size doesn’t mean fragile—when bred responsibly, these dogs possess proportionate bone structure and adequate muscle mass for their frame.

The coat healthy appearance depends on proper nutrition and regular grooming. The curly coats require consistent maintenance to prevent matting and maintain the fluffy appearance that defines the breed.

Temperament and Personality Traits

The personality of micro goldendoodles proves that good things truly come in small packages. These tiny companions inherit the best behavioral traits from both golden retrievers and toy poodles, creating ideal family pets with remarkable adaptability.

Inherited Characteristics

The affectionate nature of golden retrievers shines through in every micro goldendoodle. They form strong bonds with family members and thrive on human companionship. This devotion, combined with the high intelligence inherited from their poodle ancestry, makes them exceptionally responsive to training and eager to please.

Social Compatibility : micro goldendoodles good with children when properly socialized, though their small size requires supervision around very young kids. They generally integrate well with other pets, including cats and larger dogs, when introduced gradually and positively.

Energy and Activity : While they enjoy active playtime, micro goldendoodles require far less exercise than their larger cousins. Their adaptable energy levels make them content with moderate exercise while still appreciating interactive games and mental stimulation.

Intelligence and Trainability : The combination of golden retriever eagerness to please and poodle intelligence creates highly trainable companions. These intelligent dogs excel in puppy training classes and respond well to positive reinforcement methods.

Daily and Weekly Care

Brushing Schedule : Daily brushing prevents the curly coats from developing mats and tangles. Use a slicker brush to work through the coat systematically, paying special attention to areas prone to matting like behind the ears, under the arms, and on the legs.

Professional Grooming : Schedule professional grooming every 6-8 weeks to maintain coat health and appearance. Popular styles include puppy cuts, teddy bear cuts, and lamb cuts that enhance the breed’s naturally adorable appearance.

Specific Care Requirements

Ear Care : The floppy ears inherited from both parent breeds require weekly cleaning to prevent infections. Check for redness, odor, or excessive wax buildup during regular grooming sessions.

Dental Hygiene : Small breeds like micro goldendoodles face increased risk of dental issues due to cramped tooth spacing. Daily dental chews and regular brushing prevent poor dental hygiene and gum disease that commonly affect toy breeds.

Nail Maintenance : Use a dog specific nail clipper designed for small breeds. Trimming every 2-3 weeks prevents overgrowth that can affect gait and comfort.

How Much Grooming : Plan for 15-20 minutes of daily brushing plus monthly bathing. The time investment pays off in a healthy, beautiful coat and stronger bonding with your pet.

Grooming Tips for Success

Make grooming sessions pleasant experiences by introducing tools gradually and rewarding cooperation. Start with short sessions and gradually increase duration as your dog becomes comfortable. Keep treats handy and maintain a calm, patient demeanor throughout the process.

Common Health Concerns

The parent breeds contribute certain genetic predispositions that can affect micro goldendoodles. Hip dysplasia, though less common in smaller dogs, can still occur. Progressive retinal atrophy and other eye conditions inherited from both golden retrievers and poodles require regular monitoring.

Size-Related Health Issues : The ultra-small size of micro teacup goldendoodles creates unique vulnerabilities. Hypoglycemia poses a particular risk, as their tiny bodies struggle to maintain stable blood sugar levels. Dental crowding often occurs due to the small jaw size, requiring diligent oral care.

Respiratory Considerations : Some micro goldendoodles may experience tracheal sensitivity due to their compact airways. This doesn’t typically cause serious problems but requires awareness during exercise and excitement.

Preventive Care and Monitoring

Health Screenings : reputable breeders conduct genetic testing on parent dogs to minimize hereditary conditions. Request documentation of health clearances for both parents before purchasing a micro goldendoodle puppy.

Regular Vet Check Ups : Schedule annual wellness examinations with a veterinarian experienced in small breeds. Early detection of potential issues allows for prompt intervention and better outcomes.

Weight Management : Maintaining a healthy weight proves crucial for these tiny dogs. Even a pound of excess weight significantly impacts their small frames and can exacerbate joint problems.

Average Lifespan and Long-Term Health

With proper care, micro goldendoodles typically enjoy a 12-16 year lifespan. Their smaller size often correlates with longer life expectancy compared to larger dog breeds, provided they receive appropriate preventive care and nutrition throughout their lives.

Exercise and Activity Needs

The exercise requirements for micro teacup goldendoodles differ significantly from larger dogs, making them ideal companions for less active households or urban living situations.

Daily Activity Requirements

micro goldendoodles require approximately 20-30 minutes of daily activity, which can easily be met through indoor play and short outdoor excursions. Their small size means that moderate exercise in limited space adequately meets their physical needs.

Indoor Activities : Mental stimulation proves as important as physical exercise for these intelligent dogs. Puzzle toys, hide-and-seek games, and basic training sessions provide excellent mental workouts without requiring large spaces.

Outdoor Exercise : Short walks around the neighborhood or brief play sessions in a fenced yard satisfy their exercise needs. Avoid overexertion, particularly in extreme temperatures, as their small bodies struggle with temperature regulation.

Exercise Safety Considerations

The fragile nature of micro goldendoodles requires careful exercise management. Avoid activities that could result in falls or injuries, such as jumping from furniture or rough play with larger dogs. Supervised interactions with other pets ensure safe socialization opportunities.

Weather Considerations : Cold weather poses particular challenges for micro goldendoodles. Their small body mass makes them prone to hypothermia, requiring protective clothing and limited outdoor exposure during winter months.

Training and Socialization

The high intelligence inherited from both parent breeds makes micro goldendoodles relatively easy to train, though their small size requires modified approaches to traditional training methods.

Their gentle disposition and empathetic nature also make micro goldendoodles excellent candidates for therapy dogs, providing comfort and emotional support in a variety of therapeutic settings.

Basic Training Fundamentals

Positive Reinforcement : These sensitive dogs respond best to gentle, reward-based training methods. Use small, high-value treats and enthusiastic praise to motivate learning. Harsh corrections can damage their confidence and slow progress.

Essential Commands : Focus on commands that enhance safety and daily life: sit, stay, come, and down. These basic skills provide the foundation for more advanced training and help establish household routines.

House Training : The small bladder size of micro goldendoodles means more frequent potty breaks are necessary. Establish consistent schedules and provide easy access to appropriate elimination areas.

Socialization Strategies

Early Exposure : Introduce your micro goldendoodle puppy to various people, sounds, surfaces, and experiences during their critical socialization period (3-14 weeks). Positive early experiences prevent fearfulness and anxiety later in life.

Puppy Training Classes : Enrollment in classes specifically designed for small breeds provides safe socialization opportunities with size-appropriate playmates. These settings allow for controlled interactions that build confidence.

Ongoing Socialization : Continue socialization throughout your dog’s life to maintain their friendly, adaptable temperament. Regular positive interactions with friendly people and well-behaved dogs reinforce good social skills.

Ideal Living Environments

Apartment Living : micro goldendoodles excel in apartment settings due to their minimal space requirements and low exercise needs. Their quiet nature and small size make them considerate neighbors in close living quarters.

Temperature Control : These tiny dogs require climate-controlled environments year-round. They’re sensitive to both cold and extreme heat, necessitating appropriate indoor temperatures and protective clothing when outdoors.

Safety Considerations : The fragile nature of micro goldendoodles requires homes free from hazards that larger dogs easily navigate. Baby gates can prevent falls down stairs, and careful supervision prevents injuries from larger household members.

Lifestyle Compatibility

Family Situations : micro goldendoodles make suitable companions for families with gentle children who understand how to interact appropriately with small dogs. They’re particularly well-suited for seniors or individuals with limited mobility who appreciate a low-maintenance companion.

Travel Opportunities : Their portable size makes micro goldendoodles excellent travel companions. They can accompany owners on flights in cabin-approved carriers and adapt well to new environments when properly socialized.

Work-Life Balance : The moderate exercise needs and adaptable schedule of micro goldendoodles suit working professionals who can provide attention during mornings and evenings without requiring extensive midday exercise sessions.

Nutrition for Adult Micro Teacup Goldendoodles

Proper nutrition plays a crucial role in maintaining the health and vitality of adult micro teacup goldendoodles. Their small size and high metabolism create specific dietary requirements that differ from larger breeds.

Feeding Requirements

Caloric Needs : Adult micro goldendoodles typically require 200-400 calories daily, depending on their exact size, age, and activity level. This relatively low caloric requirement makes portion control essential to prevent obesity.

Feeding Schedule : Divide daily food portions into 2-3 small meals to prevent hypoglycemia and maintain stable blood sugar levels. Small breeds benefit from more frequent feeding compared to larger dogs.

Food Quality : Choose high-quality small breed formulas with appropriately sized kibble that’s easy for tiny mouths to manage. Look for foods with high protein content and balanced nutrition specifically designed for small breeds.

Special Nutritional Considerations

Weight Monitoring : Even small weight gains significantly impact micro goldendoodles. Monitor body condition regularly and adjust portions as needed to maintain optimal weight throughout their adult years.

Hydration Needs : Fresh water should always be available, as small breeds can dehydrate quickly. Monitor water intake, especially during hot weather or illness.

Supplements : Discuss with your veterinarian whether your micro goldendoodle would benefit from supplements supporting joint health, dental care, or skin and coat condition.

Cost and Breeding Considerations

The specialized nature of micro teacup goldendoodle breeding creates significant cost considerations for potential owners, both in initial purchase price and ongoing care expenses. It is essential to choose a reputable breeder who follows responsible breeding practices to ensure the health and well-being of the puppies.

Initial Purchase Costs

Price Range : Expect to pay $3,500-$7,500 for a micro teacup goldendoodle from reputable breeders specializing in micro sizes. This premium pricing reflects the difficulty of producing consistently small, healthy puppies and the high demand for these rare companions.

Factors Affecting Cost : Breeder reputation, geographic location, parent dog lineage, and health testing all influence final pricing. Dogs from champion bloodlines or those with extensive health clearances command higher prices.

Ongoing Expenses

Veterinary Care : Budget for regular wellness visits, vaccinations, and potential health issues specific to small breeds. Emergency care costs can be substantial given the fragility of these tiny dogs.

Professional Grooming : Monthly grooming sessions typically cost $50-100, depending on location and services required. The specialized coat care represents a significant ongoing expense.

Premium Nutrition : High-quality small breed foods cost more per pound than standard dog foods, though the small serving sizes help offset the higher per-unit cost.

Finding Reputable Breeders

Research Requirements : Spend considerable time researching breeders who prioritize health over profit. Ethical breeding practices should focus on producing healthy puppies rather than simply achieving the smallest possible size.

Health Testing : responsible breeders conduct comprehensive health screenings on parent dogs, including hip and elbow evaluations, eye clearances, and genetic testing for common breed-related conditions.

Breeder Reputation : Seek references from previous puppy buyers and veterinary contacts. responsible breeders willingly provide health guarantees and support throughout the dog’s lifetime.

Red Flags : Avoid breeders offering unusually low prices, those unable to provide health documentation, or operations that seem more focused on profit than puppy welfare. Puppy mills often exploit the high demand for micro goldendoodles.

Breeding Process Challenges

The breeding process for micro goldendoodles involves significant challenges that contribute to their higher cost. Smaller litter sizes mean fewer puppies per breeding, and the specialized care required during pregnancy and whelping increases breeder expenses.

Finding suitable parent dogs that consistently produce micro-sized offspring while maintaining good health requires years of careful selection and considerable investment in quality breeding stock.

Comparison with Other Goldendoodle Sizes

Understanding how micro teacup goldendoodles compare to other goldendoodle variations helps potential owners make informed decisions about which size best suits their lifestyle and preferences.

It's important to be aware of common micro goldendoodle lies, such as misconceptions about their hypoallergenic qualities, grooming needs, and the true definitions of their size. Some sources may exaggerate or misrepresent these traits, leading to unrealistic expectations. Always seek accurate information and choose responsible breeders to ensure you understand what to expect from a micro goldendoodle.

Size Comparisons

Size Variant	Weight Range	Height Range	Exercise Needs	Living Space
Micro Teacup	8-15 lbs	7-10 inches	Low	Apartment-friendly
Mini	25-35 lbs	13-20 inches	Moderate	Small home/apartment
Standard	50-75 lbs	20-24 inches	High	House with yard

Size Variant

Weight Range

Height Range

Exercise Needs

Living Space

Micro Teacup

8-15 lbs

7-10 inches

Low

Apartment-friendly

Mini

25-35 lbs

13-20 inches

Moderate

Small home/apartment

Standard

50-75 lbs

20-24 inches

High

House with yard

Comparing Micro Variations

Micro vs Micro Teacup : While terms are often used interchangeably, micro goldendoodles may weigh up to 25 pounds, while micro teacup specifically refers to dogs under 15 pounds. The distinction matters for those seeking the absolute smallest companions.

Exercise Differences : mini goldendoodles weigh significantly more and require proportionally more exercise and space. A 30-pound mini goldendoodle needs substantially more activity than an 8-pound micro teacup, making the latter more suitable for sedentary lifestyles.

Trait Consistency Across Sizes

Temperament : All goldendoodle sizes maintain similar personality traits inherited from golden retrievers and miniature poodle or toy poodle ancestors. The friendly, intelligent nature remains consistent regardless of size.

Grooming Needs : Coat care requirements remain similar across all sizes, though larger dogs obviously require more time and product. The hypoallergenic coat properties and professional grooming frequency stay consistent.

Lifespan Considerations : Smaller dogs generally enjoy longer lifespans, with micro teacup goldendoodles potentially living 2-3 years longer than their standard-sized cousins.

Special Considerations for Micro Teacup Owners

Owning a micro teacup goldendoodle requires awareness of unique considerations that don’t affect larger dog breeds. These factors influence daily care routines and long-term planning.

Safety and Fragility Concerns

Physical Vulnerability : The delicate bone structure of micro goldendoodles makes them susceptible to injuries that wouldn’t affect larger dogs. Simple activities like jumping off furniture can result in fractures or other serious injuries.

Interaction Supervision : Careful supervision is necessary when micro goldendoodles interact with larger dogs, even friendly ones. Play that seems gentle to a larger dog can overwhelm or injure a tiny companion.

Child Interactions : While these dogs work well with families, very young children require education about gentle handling. The small size makes these dogs vulnerable to accidental injury from enthusiastic youngsters.

Environmental Adaptations

Temperature Regulation : micro goldendoodles struggle with temperature extremes due to their high surface-area-to-body-mass ratio. They require sweaters in cold weather and air conditioning during hot periods.

Home Modifications : Consider installing ramps instead of expecting dogs to navigate stairs, and ensure dangerous heights are blocked off. These modifications prevent injuries and make daily life easier for tiny dogs.

Travel and Transportation

Airline Travel : The small size makes cabin travel easier, as micro goldendoodles fit in airline-approved carriers that fit under airplane seats. This advantage allows them to accompany owners on trips where larger dogs would need cargo transport.

Car Safety : Use appropriate safety restraints designed for small dogs. Their light weight makes them particularly vulnerable to injury during sudden stops or accidents without proper restraints.

Emergency Preparedness

Health Monitoring : Learn to recognize signs of hypoglycemia, respiratory distress, and other conditions that disproportionately affect small breeds. Quick recognition and response can be life-saving.

Veterinary Access : Establish relationships with veterinarians experienced in small breed care, including emergency clinics that understand the unique needs of micro goldendoodles.

Notable Micro Doodle Influencers

The popularity of micro goldendoodles has grown partly through social media exposure from notable micro doodle influencers who showcase the charm and appeal of these tiny companions. These online personalities help potential owners understand what life with a micro goldendoodle really entails.

Understanding the realities behind the social media appeal helps set realistic expectations for prospective owners. While these dogs make wonderful companions, they require dedicated care and understanding of their unique needs.

Understanding the Micro Doodle: Place in the Doodle Family

Micro goldendoodles are part of the ever-growing doodle family, which includes popular hybrids like Labradoodles, Aussiedoodles, and Bernedoodles. Within the goldendoodle family, micro goldendoodles represent the smallest size category, typically weighing less than 25 pounds. They are often compared to mini goldendoodles, which are slightly larger, and toy goldendoodles, which are also prized for their compact size and suitability for apartment living. The micro doodle’s petite stature and adaptable personality have made them favorites among city dwellers and those with limited space. Notable micro doodle influencers on social media have helped showcase the breed’s playful spirit, intelligence, and versatility, inspiring a new generation of dog lovers to welcome these adorable companions into their homes. By understanding where micro goldendoodles fit within the broader doodle family, prospective owners can better appreciate their unique qualities and decide if this compact, loving breed is the right match for their lifestyle.

FAQ

---

How long does it take for a micro teacup goldendoodle to reach full size?

Most reach their adult weight and height between 12-18 months, with 75% of growth completed by 6 months. Their small size means they mature faster than larger dog breeds, making it easier to predict their final adult appearance relatively early.

Are micro teacup goldendoodles more fragile than regular-sized dogs?

Yes, their tiny size makes them more susceptible to injuries from falls, rough play, or interactions with larger animals. They require gentle handling and supervised interactions with children and other pets. However, when properly cared for, they can be surprisingly resilient despite their delicate appearance.

Do micro teacup goldendoodles have different nutritional needs than larger dogs?

They need high-quality small breed formula with smaller kibble size and more frequent meals (2-3 times daily) to prevent hypoglycemia. Their caloric needs are lower but nutrient density should be higher. The feeding schedule is particularly important as their small stomachs and high metabolism require consistent fuel throughout the day.

Can micro teacup goldendoodles live in cold climates?

They can but require extra protection including sweaters, coats, and limited outdoor exposure in freezing temperatures. Their small body mass makes them prone to hypothermia. Indoor heating becomes crucial, and owners often need to invest in appropriate winter clothing for their pets.

What’s the difference between a micro and teacup goldendoodle?

These terms are often used interchangeably by breeders, though “teacup” typically refers to dogs under 10 pounds while “micro” may include dogs up to 15 pounds. Both are significantly smaller than standard micro goldendoodles, which can weigh up to 25 pounds. The key is asking specific breeders about their size definitions and seeing adult parent dogs to understand expected sizing.